To admins - Maybe a slight change in rules.

I suggest we change the rules a bit regarding remaking.

The current rules are as seen here :
Remaking

* You may remake/leave a game if game status is other than 5v5, 5v4 or 4v4
* You may remake/leave a game if game status is other than 5v5 and the team scores are 0-0 and game has lasted no longer than 7 minutes.
* Users who have been afk/idle for a total of 5 minutes or more count as leavers when determining game status.
* You are not allowed to forfeit.
* At any time during a game you can vote to remake/cancel a game. In order to remake/leave the game, the majority of all players must agree, including those in the opposite team.
* Only users who confirm that they wish to remake/cancel the game count. Users who do not reply count as having voted to play on.
* If you remake/leave a game after a voting, you MUST save the replay in order to be able to prove that the majority of all players agreed, otherwise you will get banned if someone reports you!
* The host of a game has no special rights to decide when to remake/cancel a game. Hosts remaking a game without fullfilling the criteria stated above will be counted as LEAVERS!


The main problem i found with these rules can be seen here :
https://edhlr.canadaboard.net/hlr-unban-requests-f9/unban-galetusha-t14964.htm#36173

A typical match, a guy gets fb-ed and leaves, and hence the problem : All the guys from our team say rmk because 4v5 from the 5th min against other High level players isn't quite fair, and we rmk, and the host gets posted and banned because we shouldn't have rmk-ed. Now why shouldn't we have rmk-ed? The opposing team likes to bash people and ofc they wanted to play a 4v5 game so they didn't want a remake. This whole situation doesn't seem fair to me. I'm supposed to stay and try to play a 4v5 match? why? because a random dude just left?

After the 15th , 20th minute there's no doubt about it that I would play a 4v5 match, but not in the 5th min. You should change the rules so that the team with the leaver decides whether to play or remake, it seems to be more fair like this.

What's stopping me from pulling the plug, and saying OMG ISP PROBLEMS, or in case of a host, start the torrents and wish the opposing team good luck with 5 sec delay.. ?
These are the ONLY options left to stop a match that's not balanced and I wouldn't like to use them... (These methods are OK judging by your rules because you can't prove anything).
Please make all our gaming experience better.

I'd like some feedback if you agree or disagree (please say why).
Have a nice day.

nice and true
supported

Dont even know the guy but hes right imo. Or simply put the rule that any other format than 5v5 is leave-able, since noone likes to waste at least 30 mins more, if some faggot left @ min 3. After all, dota is ment to be played 5v5 and i personally dont enjoy 5v4 whichever team im in, and i think most ppl doesnt too. At least let the 4player team decide if they play on, or rmk, that would be fair cause if they think its not a waste, theyll vote to play on, if no, they wont.

Even more, the rule about "dcing" completely fails and is useless, cause everyone can fake dc, take screen, post it and get unbanned. As it is now, it only helps couple leavers not to get ban. - Rework it.

Also, leavers should be banned for same time period in ALL hlr's imo (same as mh users are for instance). What else, if someone gets banned many times and still is leaving, IP ban the faggots so they cant even use the client. Mb even hire few 100s of guys who will be sent in each leaver's home to beat the shit out of them and put them on a stick and set them on fire, then take pics and post them in new forum section called GALLERY, as an example of why u should not leave games. - Yes, thats how much i hate leavers.

I say someone leaving at any minute during the game deserves a maximum ban (30 days), and the choice to rmk is to the team which has 4 players. A vote between them should decide if the game to be remade or not. The other team shouldn't have a say in it.

It would also be nice to global ban leavers xD atleast in hl rooms.

I say that because I have come across a lot of leavers who state that they dont care about being banned, cause they can just play in a higher or lower hl room.

Njus, IP banning them would be bad for business, but if they are banned in hl rooms, hl rooms would be a better place within a week!

I'm also in love with the idea of beating leavers and putting them into flames!!! I WANNA DO THAT TOO!!!

and a way to solve the (dc) problem would be simple. You would check ban history and (dc) ban history and decide whether a player deserves a ban or not.

I feel bad for admins, having it hard from all sides xD players and Jubaa.. I'll be glad if they can get rid of him for good..

Yep global ban for leavers will for sure make hlr's better place, since at least minority of them will think twice before they leave the game.

street_dog wrote:

This is not going to happen.
Dota is not only about you. It is about your team and about opposite team players. This means that you have to respect them as well.
I will translate it further - that means that you should not leave.
It has been decided that 4v5 and 4v4 games are enough balanced and there are enough chances of victory for both teams.
By the way usually the game is lost when someone of the team decides that it is lost. Such behavior is not and will not be tolerated ever in high level rooms. In every game a player must give his best to win.
Playing in high level rooms actually doesn't mean only higher skill(well all of you will agree that the level is higher than in normal rooms). It means mostly security. Security that the game will finish in a proper way, security that there wont be leavers. That's basically the point of the hl rooms. If you want to play somewhere where you can leave when you decide the game is over go play in normal rooms

not really 4v5 is not balanced unless its a retarded pub (which is the case in hlrs)

4v5 is balanced if the leaver is not the solo hero ..

From 10 players of a game just 3-4 knows what is dota , i mean what is a carry, support , roaming etc, when ur Void, Pa , Riki etc and a CM or VS steal ur kills where is the fucking point to play 4v5? Hard to see in HLrs a support who just harras and deny , even supports last hitting ,Ks and more .... wards and cickens its already forgoten in this rooms .... if anyone buy courier he dont even share , so we play in this rooms to waste our time.
for better gaming try LHDL , ARGH , EEDL , DP , DOTAINVITE, DOTA-LEAGUE but dont try to play EAL because all garena crackers banned in hlrs playing there, so bad room . i wish gl and hf playing with bots in hlrs

I would get rid of the "You will get banned even if you leave a few seconds before the end" rule. It just sucks.
EDIT: And I'd also add a policy on switching when the game is -so. Example: Its 5vs4 and everyone is agreeing to switch except for 1 or 2 guys. That is also in my opinion game ruining and should be punished.
Oh and intentional kill stealing also should be forbidden. And lets be clear on this one, I'm not talking about someone last hitting in a gank, I'm talking about someone taking 95% of the opponents HP and an idiot comes and last hits him getting all the gold and exp with no effort invested what so ever.

EU|Fear wrote:

From 10 players of a game just 3-4 knows what is dota , i mean what is a carry, support , roaming etc, when ur Void, Pa , Riki etc and a CM or VS steal ur kills where is the fucking point to play 4v5? Hard to see in HLrs a support who just harras and deny , even supports last hitting ,Ks and more .... wards and cickens its already forgoten in this rooms .... if anyone buy courier he dont even share , so we play in this rooms to waste our time.
for better gaming try LHDL , ARGH , EEDL , DP , DOTAINVITE, DOTA-LEAGUE but dont try to play EAL because all garena crackers banned in hlrs playing there, so bad room . i wish gl and hf playing with bots in hlrs

I would agree here. 100% true. Playing 4v5 in HLR 3/2/1 is a lot different than in 4 or 5. If not 100%, at least 80% of the guys who play in HLR 3/2/1 are solid players, and you can't just win a game with a leaver in the team. People who play in these rooms, most of them, the bigger part of the percentage are the kind who got their account level BY playing DotA. A small number of people use cracked accounts, and we all know that, and there is this smallest part who use other people's accounts (Friend's, brother's, hacked or even bought on ebay).
Now when you are in a game 4v5, and you are on the side of the team with 4 players, I don't see much chances of winning if the opposite team is at least as half as good as their account's level. Chances are not slim, but practically impossible.
Pure case of this is a game I played in HLR 3, where the host was 45 lvl, and was a VERY GOOD player, one of ours left. We were doing good till he decided that he has to leave (asking us not to report him, saying it was an emergency), but when he left, one disable less cost us the game. It was a waste of quality 65 minutes (around 25th we lost the Witch Doctor), so it was only a matter of time when they would destroy us along with everything else on the map.
If I wanted to waste time, I would play in shitty rooms like Europe DotA Room 15. HLR is something more serious imo.

What if we make this thread a "suggestion box" for addition of new rules, modification of some of the current ones , removal of others ... ? It would be great if everyone makes constructive critics about the rules as many of you here have done.
Rules are made for you, the players, so it's logical that we must listen to the possible suggestions you might have.

I can already answer to some suggestions mentioned above.
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- I would get rid of the "You will get banned even if you leave a few seconds before the end" rule. It just sucks.

This rule may seem stupid but the reason beneath it is so powerful and coherent, let me explain it roughly.
I believe you say that because you think that everyone should be able to leave once the game is obviously over, dont you? but the problem lays in the fact that your definition of ‘obviously’ will be different from mine and my definition will be different from another user's one and so forth, so it is practically impossible to distinguish a clear and well defined border to determine that a game is over for everyone.

To put it briefly, the only event/moment of a game that everybody will safely acknowledge as the end of the game is the collapse of the main building and short moments before.

Althought this rule is very hard to be changed I'm always willing to contemplate decent alternatives.
I take advantage to say that this rule has a lot of to do with the uber famous ‘FF rule’, so please take into account the explanation I gave when proposing the FF rule –one more time-, and also keep in mind that this is a public space.
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- Even more, the rule about "dcing" completely fails and is useless, cause everyone can fake dc, take screen, post it and get unbanned. As it is now, it only helps couple leavers not to get ban. - Rework it.

Recidivious ‘disconnecters’ are not getting unbanned, because neither we are dumb nor we think that unstable connections are good for EDHLRs.

- and a way to solve the (dc) problem would be simple. You would check ban history and (dc) ban history and decide whether a player deserves a ban or not.

That's exactly what I do.
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Global bans: We are working on it, I have done my stint but other things that escape my control must be arranged aswell before I can go on.
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About the remaking rule, Im producing right now a poll for the rule to be changed or not, so it's time to vote, citizens.

so what has become out of a serious thread in the beginning? a sand box, where everybody can build his castle? stop dreaming guys, the rules are good as they are.

as most of the suggestions in here are not only bad but really crazy, I will only answer the first and hopefull ONLY SERIOUS suggestion:

if you have 4 players agreeing on rmk, it cannot be so hard to get a fifth one, which would lead to a majority. if you can IN NO WAYS convince any of the enemy players, then they all really want to play. you will have to accept it then. might suck, but as most people in here even stated:

many people just do not see a point in a 4vs5 player game from minute 5 on. so most in here would even vote for rmk if they were in the 5 player team. no problem then.

also note: most important and most forgotten: you need the replay of that game in ANY CASE! that is where most ppl are having problems with, to proove their innocence. if you have it and go to unban section, explaining the situation, we might understand it. also 0doaker alrdy said he is working on it, although I doubt THIS way will come true. just talk to all players in the game, it dota is not only team, it is also game. no matter if opposite teams or not, all should play TOGETHER.

make the first step, be polite ingame and also understand the desires of your "oponents". in most cases this rule is no problem. the very few cases where not enough ppl vote for rmk.... let them just play, 4vs5 is balanced enough for trying.

and never forget: if there is NO CHANCE AT ALL, game is over so fast, you will not waste much time. it is one of the most important points, ppl often forget...


greetz,
Eunique

@Eunique
So you are saying that the rules are perfect? The last time I checked, DotA it self wasn't perfect. And please, tell me one thing:

Remaking:

You may remake/leave a game if game status is other than 5v5 and the team scores are 0-0 and game has lasted no longer than 7 minutes.

Here, it clearly says that IF THE GAME HAS LASTED NOT LONGER THAN 7 MINUTES, and the status is OTHER THAN 5V5, the remake is eminent. Now, ofc, there will some who are willing to test their skills, and that is fine.
akatish opened this thread with a link. If you check it there, it says that the minute was 5th, not 7th. Why do the 4-players-team has to ask the 5players-team for a permission to remake, if the 4 players don't see the point of playing, knowing that they will get owned?
FF option, you mentioned. Well, when you tell the opposite team "fast finish", they DELIBERATELY go farm, go to kill Roshan, buy wards and plant them, cuz they want to enjoy raping you. I don't find this amusing, no matter what team I am on, frankly, I don't know about you, but if you ask me, you either enjoy being raped while in the 4players team, or enjoy raping, while being in the 5players team.

So what I would change in the top rule, is remove the score status, 0-0. So it would be:

You may remake/leave a game if game status is other than 5v5 and game has lasted no longer than 7 minutes.

So basically, you are FORCING US to play a game in which we don't see a point. I mean, really, are you in ALL the games to know if there is a point of playing or not?
What if your team sucks? What if they don't say miss? What if they just farm, what if they are just a bunch of newbies with bought accounts from the ebay? I was present on a game like that last night, where my team was a 4 LAN players, and they weren't telling me miss? One dropped, had a PC crash, and the others were just talking with them selfs, there was not any TYPING on the keyboard at all. You want me to remain and play a lame game like that? And yes, there were absolutely NO CHANCES OF WINNING, cuz the guys knew NOT of a team-play. All of this took place in a HLR 3 game. And abiding the rules, I had to stay in game, waste my time, 40 more minutes. I don't find it very amusing.