Remaking rule

I would suggest you think over it once again, before giving us moderators the power to deny request on 9 min friend leaver and ban our enemy for leaving at minute 6, because at that time we thought "that was around 7 mins" or "because game was (wasnt) fine , because when global ban comes, you will be banned from all HLRs because you didnt know there is a mod who decided to ban you for leaving at minute 6, when previously 5 times other mods decided not to.

street_dog wrote:

Around 7 min means nothing
If we should add the rule odoaker proposed(i am against it actually) we should not in any case put words like "around"
Why? Because every game should be equal in front of the rule.
If you read your constitution you will see that people under 18 can't do plenty of things. It's not written around 18. 1 day before 18 you can't vote and that's all.
Moderators are here to judge every case, this is something like what real judges do. And their decision are always based, always, on firm and rigid laws which try do avoid as maximum as possible double interpretation. The reason is obvious i think.
If we should make a new rule it should be a real good one. Otherwise you cannot expect good decision from us based on bad rules. And a rule which says "around" is bad one. I can deside for example(and most likely i will) to ban somebody who has left a game in 8 min, then 1 hour after the same man comes in unban section and says: "I am banned illegaly because the rule says around 7 min I can leave. 8 min is around 7". By the way I don't see even why 10 min should not be "around 7 min", or even 15 min.
"Around" is "common sense". But we said already that this definition is large. Don't see why around is not.

All I ask you - think before you vote and propose something. Think of the consequences it will have. Think of every situation. Because a rule which is applicable to 7/10 games is not a good one. A rule must be made so that it can apply on every situation.

It is cool to say - "today my game was ruined by a leaver in the min 6 I wanted to leave but rules made me stay. Let's change them."
I wish it was so simple but it isn't. I said it in the last thread about that. High lvl rooms are not league. If you want league rules go play in league rooms/clients. These are pub games. You cannot try to apply league rules in pub games. You cannot say that 5v4 game is unbalanced = leave. Many games are unbalanced since the beggining because of the lame pick or because of lacking skills of some players. So what now - quit as well ?
I don't think so.

I don't mind rules being changed. After all they should serve the community to achieve it's goal which is better games. If most of you think the rule of remaking should be changed it is ok for me, altough i wouldn't touch it at all. But as I asked - think twice on what are you proposing and in the next stage - on what you will vote.

For me the most "common sense" would have to vote in the game for rmk. This is the most efficient way to decide whatever to remake. After all there are only 9 players in the game, not 90 nor 900. We can of course change the rules of the voting system as I proposed or do something else, not important. But I am against the decision of single player to remake imposing on the other 8.
And after all if remaking after 1 early leaver is so "logical" we why need a special rule about it ? Everybody should vote yes and we will remake. But wait, that's not what happens every time, right ? I basically think that the problem when we try to rmk after the early leaver are the people who don't vote. Well, let's do something about that. Like changing the voting system.

Why not simply make it that only 5v5 is playable? Who will be losing anything by that rule? Besides, most ppl dont report leavers cause the effect "wears off" (rage?) if the game is prolonged much. Many things happen afterwards so they just lost interest in reporting. I mean, if u was able to rmk if 1 leaver leaves, i bet almost none of leavers would get away with no punish.

If the game lasted less than 7 minutes, game status is other than 5v5, but game score is other than 0-0, you may remake/leave if no more than 4 players want to continue

I second street_dog's motion.

0doaker wrote:

- I would get rid of the "You will get banned even if you leave a few seconds before the end" rule. It just sucks.

This rule may seem stupid but the reason beneath it is so powerful and coherent, let me explain it roughly.
I believe you say that because you think that everyone should be able to leave once the game is obviously over, dont you? but the problem lays in the fact that your definition of ‘obviously’ will be different from mine and my definition will be different from another user's one and so forth, so it is practically impossible to distinguish a clear and well defined border to determine that a game is over for everyone.

To put it briefly, the only event/moment of a game that everybody will safely acknowledge as the end of the game is the collapse of the main building and short moments before.

Althought this rule is very hard to be changed I'm always willing to contemplate decent alternatives.
I take advantage to say that this rule has a lot of to do with the uber famous ‘FF rule’, so please take into account the explanation I gave when proposing the FF rule –one more time-, and also keep in mind that this is a public space.

No I was not referring to leaving when the game is obviously over, I was referring to cases like this: https://edhlr.canadaboard.net/hlr1-ban-requests-f3/ban-jomaster-t15231.htm
See? An absolutely innocent and a good player banned for 5 days. Yeah, it's not much, but it's not necessary either.

EU.GaSeR wrote:

If the game lasted less than 7 minutes, game status is other than 5v5, but game score is other than 0-0, you may remake/leave if no more than 4 players want to continue

The games who last less than 7 minutes with 0-0 score are 1%/day... At least below HLR 2 (3, 4, 5). That's my experience. I dunno how's in HRL or 1, but we need to make this EQUAL for all rooms, not just two, or one, in that matter.

@sacuTEkaram

How about https://edhlr.canadaboard.net/hlr5-ban-requests-f8/ban-mymrazerange-t15918.htm )) epic

NjuS wrote:

@sacuTEkaram

How about https://edhlr.canadaboard.net/hlr5-ban-requests-f8/ban-mymrazerange-t15918.htm )) epic

1 day he got.he know him probably,that's why he got one day, and how much would i get if i left same way he did ?30 days ?!
he left game = leaver no mater's one sec or one min...he showed no respect for rest of players in game by leaving game!!!
P.S. Nothing more but my opinion..

* Only users who confirm that they wish to remake/cancel the game count. Users who do not reply count as having voted to play on.







since the VOTE IS FOR RMK i believe the users who don`t reply count as voting for rmk. only those that have something against it will say smth....all the rest that don`t say a thing ususally don`t care if it`ll be a rmk or no so i suggest the votes to count : FOR RMK/ NOT FOR RMK ---- those without a clear vote to count as the suggestion - RMK

i add,when in games that wanna bring an end and loser's team stay near fountain and other team w8ing until they get out and they dont end it(just invoke em)the loser's team can just leave and dont w8 until it finish and it can be proved with replay,thats a pissing issue that i have made it too,but it annoys me anyway

wiRus91 wrote:

NjuS wrote:

@sacuTEkaram

How about https://edhlr.canadaboard.net/hlr5-ban-requests-f8/ban-mymrazerange-t15918.htm )) epic

1 day he got.he know him probably,that's why he got one day, and how much would i get if i left same way he did ?30 days ?!
he left game = leaver no mater's one sec or one min...he showed no respect for rest of players in game by leaving game!!!
P.S. Nothing more but my opinion..

You're a fucking idiot. Nuff said.

^^
+1

ive read now nearly all of this stuff here.
and some ideas were really cool.

Defend or not defende:
the "you have to defend ,no matter what" rule is in my opinion good but worse too. because i really know that situations in the losing team with allready 2 mega creep lanes.all want give up on this point,but in fact there is allways a litle chance to win IF ALL defend.i ve allready won such games a lot of times!
but on the other hand its kinda worse,because if it is really a score of 32-4 for example, that there is no chance at all to win this. BUT such games are less often then the other ones,because most players just "whine" after they are a losing a bit.whatever gamestatus/gametime/game state it is at the moment.thats why i think the rule is ok

Remake or not to remake:
There is allready a good base system for this. but we surely have to add some things.
First of all the 7 minutes issue. I think street is right, that it have to be a clear time just like 7 min. But the idea with the testing time is really kinda great. Lets take a lil example game: Leaver after 7:42
Game score 4-6 (no matter which team has more kills)
Shall we remake or not? Most kids/guys who have some kills would say "play",no matter which team. And some pesimistic players would instantly say "remake".
Why not give another 3 Minutes for testing the game at this point:
You try to farm,gank and so on. The you can still vote for a remake if its not worth at all to play on. If the leave was after 10 minutes,there wont be a testint time.
In this case we would play 12 minutes maximum, what is in my opinion not that much time waste and still more time to feel the game.
So the rule would be like now with this addon: If the game state is other then 5v5 and gametime is ove 7 minutes,but under 10 minutes, you have 3 minutes time to decide whether you want to remake or not. a leave in this 3 minutes is surely worth a report and a ban.

Leave in last Minutes of the Game
I hate players that leave in the last 2-5 minutes of the game just because they are losing the game. Thats why i report all of this guys. Its just not fair at all,sure they cant do anything to win the game anymore,but you dont quit a F1 race just because you are 10th...
There have to be some fair mind of the players.some of the new players in HLR 5 for example will lose a lot of garena exp too. esepcially if the host leaves in this time its in my opinion an at least 20 days ban worth!
Like street have said.we need clear rules.so i think we need for this cases some rules too



Generally and most important things
Only like 10% of the Players see or read in this forum. is there a way to make the final poll in garena client itself?like if i enter the room => poll.
I know that its the fault of the others players that dont read it,but should have read it. but i think that we cant make decissions on 41 players...so there should be a way to reacht at least a bit more of them!

if dota was a 5vs4 game, there wouldn't be 5 slots for each team...
i dont care what the 5man team says, i dont care if it is dc or rage plug, i just dont wanna lose my time in a 5vs4 game no matter who the winner is, and watch the "noobs" typing GG.
Serious and strict measures should be taken immediatly.

if all will read the new rules i think it will be not that big issue.
just like now allready you take screenshot of the vote before rmk and thats it.

I still think my suggestion is the best one, as it is probably the fastest way to determine whether to rmk or not, and also relatively easy for mods to check.

All in all, it's (imo) easy and simple way to do it.

For example, this sounds horrible:

Quote :

If the game state is other then 5v5 and gametime is ove 7 minutes,but under 10 minutes, you have 3 minutes time to decide whether you want to remake or not. a leave in this 3 minutes is surely worth a report and a ban.

And yeah... people discussing the leaving at the last minutes. We ain't gonna change that. That rule is a must. Removing it would just create too much situations in which people claim "it was over" when it wasn't. And like it was mentioned, you don't quit a sports/tournament/competition/whatever just because you are losing. It's called sportsmanship. Something DotA players in general seem to lack.

Not many people see this thread/poll, but I think those who do are the ones that count the most anyways, right? The most active people. So we could make a new one at the new official forum, but going with these results would be just as good, imo.



EDIT: There should also be a waiting time of at least a minute or so to see that everyone gets a chance to say something and host doesn't just instantly rmk before anyone can even react.

agree

BDeaD wrote:

So , lets say all accepted the suggested changes , how would you apply it on game ?
by all chat channel or by some kind of a vote like the switch mode when everyone types -ok or -no , cause believe me , this will end up badly for admins checking the chat log for any game with an issue

I like the idea with vote-command.
This means new version of DotA, where the -rmk command is available.
Example:
Scourge team have a leaver:
Pink types -rmk
Then everyone vote: -ok or -no.
If the leaver is actually the pink player, then the next player types -rmk.
About the timing, well I think that it should be before minute 10*. After 10th minute, this command would not be available, example:
More than 10 minutes passed. You can not vote a remake now.
Leaver gets banned, and if anyone leaves without remake being voted gets banned too. If vote-result for remake is NO, then whosoever leaves gets banned.

*The timing is just a suggestion, it can be edited.

ThugAngel87 wrote:

BDeaD wrote:

So , lets say all accepted the suggested changes , how would you apply it on game ?
by all chat channel or by some kind of a vote like the switch mode when everyone types -ok or -no , cause believe me , this will end up badly for admins checking the chat log for any game with an issue

I like the idea with vote-command.
This means new version of DotA, where the -rmk command is available.
Example:
Scourge team have a leaver:
Pink types -rmk
Then everyone vote: -ok or -no.
If the leaver is actually the pink player, then the next player types -rmk.
About the timing, well I think that it should be before minute 10*. After 10th minute, this command would not be available, example:
More than 10 minutes passed. You can not vote a remake now.
Leaver gets banned, and if anyone leaves without remake being voted gets banned too. If vote-result for remake is NO, then whosoever leaves gets banned.

*The timing is just a suggestion, it can be edited.

I will try to summ this up and add the "rmk allowed before minute 7" part:
If the gametime is below 7 Minutes and the Gamestate other then 5v5, you may leave/remake the game.
If the gametime is over 7 Minutes,BUT under 10 Minutes, you have 3 Minutes time to vote for a remake.A leave in this 3 Minutes without a voted remake is bannable. After this 3 Minutes (Maximal time would be 12:59 minutes) a remake vote isnt allowed anymore and you have to play the game on.


I think this version is a good sum up and a good addition to the current rules.
But still feel free to add/change things

This would be ok for league rules, where people care for vouch and read rules. In hlrs people do not know them, so we sure should have an easy and well-explained rule, not one you can "sum up" in 4 lines of text.

it´s depend the player!.. if you want to rmk you can leave the game whenever you want and take your ban with no hard felling´s..xD


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